Great conversation, Meghan and Mary Lou! Not even done listening yet, but wanted to share this observation about men who defend calling transwomen "she" and get high and mighty with women who won't -- like you said, they're refusing to see how using false pronouns can start a snowball effect of being expected to treat certain men as women and how real life women have to pay the price (i.e. in sports, prisons, etc.) for that, way more than men do. IIRC, I commented elsewhere some years ago in a post on a "woke" channel (a channel I no longer subscribe to, it became too nauseating) that these defensive "cis" men need to be sure to add transwomen, (because of course transwomen are real women, aren't they, men?) to their dating pools and if they don't, they're transphobic bigots. The response, of course, was crickets. Keep on fighting the good fight, Meghan and Mary Lou. Best of luck at the Victoria event!!! ❤️❤️👍
Oh well, you lost me with covid. Unfortunately that part of an otherwise wonderful conversation rubbed me the wrong way (which is okay of course, no need to agree all the time). I do agree you shouldn't trust everything the media, government, or your friends for that matter, tell you, but you don't really seem to know what the whole truth is either (who does?) and yet still sound a bit too sure of yourselves. As for me, having a strong biology education helped separate the truth from the lies/exaggerations, but I think I'm fortunate that way. Public health threats are real, pandemics are real, doing whatever you can, whenever you can/if you can, to keep from catching a bad virus that could kill you is just common sense (also, climate change is real and it's bad, but I won't go there...). I agree though that the "powers that be" aren't doing their jobs, are f-ing with people's minds at times, and for probably nefarious reasons, and the public are generally uniformed, not to mention, sadly, often pretty stupid and gullible. Education about anything and everything that matters, that's often the best defense in life (imo). On the other hand, I'm well aware of all the people who never had a good education, because they can't even get a good education -- children who are too poor, become illiterate, live with domestic abuse, and so on. Nevertheless, I celebrate free speech here and elsewhere, even when I don't agree with some of your views. Sorry for this rambling rant, and best of luck to both of you!
No problem. I'll listen again for more specifics, then get back to you, I promise. And am honored that you're asking (I mean it!) 😊 Just off the bat though, I realize that there is/was no consensus on covid policies and precautions, so I don't think you and Mary Lou were at all way out there with your take on things, nor not likely fully in agreement with each other either. Total agreement on anything is rare, as it probably should be. I also think that some people went way overboard believing all the covid hype. Also, in case it matters, I had the US experience of the pandemic, and that may color my views. So, toodeloo for now.
Hi Meghan, Just to say I'm not sure it would matter at this point if I tried to respond more on how I disagree with some of what was said on the podcast. It's kind of a challenge anyway unless I were to have a transcript and could copy and paste and comment like that to certain points. What's more important (imo) is that you and ML are taking stand and speaking out for women, the part of the conversation about prostituted women was inspiring! So, suffice it to say, I hope, I support you, have for some time, think you're intelligent and brave, and this may sound strange, but as I'm old enough to be your mother (of course no offense to your real mother!), I'd have been proud to call you my daughter (I never had children, on purpose, and I'm okay with that). Wishing you the best!
That's an insane story right out of a horror movie that Mary Lou told! That, and Meghan talking about camping alone and being afraid of both men and bears, got me to thinking about how I'll bet a lot of American women doing something like that would have a gun with them. I know that's not an option for most Canadians and for good reason but there it is...sometimes you *do* need one for protection, and there's *no way* I would camp alone in the woods without a firearm. But, since I don't know how to shoot and have never owned a gun, I would never camp alone in the woods. Not judging y'all, but that's what I was thinking... a gun beats a knife duct-taped to a stick, and in Canada, he's less likely to be packing his *own* piece. Esp if he needs to strap a knife to a stuck.
Sorry, ex-pat American here...and I do support the 2A...but with more restrictions than are currently in place (I'm against f'n idiots with guns!)
Re prostitution: Here's something to think about. What would prostitution look like if *women* ran the *entire* industry rather than men? When I was in my twenties I read Sydney Biddle Barrow's Book Mayflower Madam (remember her?) She was an upper-class woman who ran a high-class brothel with 'nice' girls and a lot of rules for men. It was quite exclusive and, according to Barrows, the girls were well-treated and carefully protected by her. Now, I haven't found so far any testimonies or memoirs of women who worked for Barrows so the narrative may be heavily skewed. But what she did was to apply regular marketing and branding ideas to prostitution which brought a different mindset to it. *IF* she watched out for the girls and made sure they were well-treated by the clients--who allegedly could be banned for bad behaviour--then, what would the industry look like if women ran it? Discuss. Debate. Explain. :)
There have been female brothel owners and I've spoken to and interviewed women who've worked for some of these women. Prostitution is traumatic either way, though... it's the nature of the game...
You may well be right. But these female brothel owners operate in a patriarchal world with whom they must compete. I would love to know (and I've looked) if Barrows's business model was as positive and pleasant as suggested (and granted, the girls weren't going with any lowlifes) or whether it's all a load of shit. I don't know that prostitution will ever go away. Men and women are just wired too differently, and sex doesn't require emotions and commitment for men as it does for many women (and I know there are exceptions to everything!)
Women who become escort agency owners or brothel owners or whatever tend to be women who've aged out of prostituting themselves, so likely have their own industry-related trauma, but this is what they know how to do, so continue to operate within the industry as it were. In order to switch from exploited to exploiter, though, I think you'd have to really check out and force yourself into a rather sociopathic mindset... I'm just not sure how this could be framed as a good thing either way...
Again keep in mind Biddle Barrows ran a mostly "outcall" service whereas what is frequently discussed here and in other places are "incalls" or mega-brothels. Biddle Barrows type operations do exist in Europe but don't get a lot of attention except for example in this video below.
I don't doubt there abusive female brothel owners and agency managers but I do think you are on to something about being a female run field vs a male run field. Another thought of mine is the inegalitarian nature of Biddle Barrows type operations don't really fit in the preferred narrative of the pro prostitution crowd either which is centered a much more left wing anti capitalist orientation. Biddle Barrows and that Leyla featured in the video above really are not catering to the poor and downtrodden classes as there customer base.
Another comment I will make is I happen to know anecdotally that a lot of the girls that work for present day Biddle Barrows type or work "independently" for the same type of clientele are actually kind of politically conservative and unwoke i.e. they would prefer less taxes and lower crime and are more likely to take Israel's side than Hamas. The only really left wing position they have is that prostitution should be legal.
Well, there isn't a lot of data on this but anecdotally in countries like Germany and Belgium most so-called "outcall" escort agencies are owned/run by women and modelled similarly to Sydney Biddle Barrow's operation. It is the "brothel" side of the business which is more likely to be owned/run by men.
Interesting factoid. In the UK escort agencies akin to Sydney Biddle Barrow's operation are legal while German style mega-brothels are not. Some defenders of the UK model argue it is akin to alcohol licensing policies that allow alcohol to be served in restaurants but discourage establishments that serve alcohol only without food and encourage heavy drinking and disorderly conduct.
Great conversation, Meghan and Mary Lou! Not even done listening yet, but wanted to share this observation about men who defend calling transwomen "she" and get high and mighty with women who won't -- like you said, they're refusing to see how using false pronouns can start a snowball effect of being expected to treat certain men as women and how real life women have to pay the price (i.e. in sports, prisons, etc.) for that, way more than men do. IIRC, I commented elsewhere some years ago in a post on a "woke" channel (a channel I no longer subscribe to, it became too nauseating) that these defensive "cis" men need to be sure to add transwomen, (because of course transwomen are real women, aren't they, men?) to their dating pools and if they don't, they're transphobic bigots. The response, of course, was crickets. Keep on fighting the good fight, Meghan and Mary Lou. Best of luck at the Victoria event!!! ❤️❤️👍
Oh well, you lost me with covid. Unfortunately that part of an otherwise wonderful conversation rubbed me the wrong way (which is okay of course, no need to agree all the time). I do agree you shouldn't trust everything the media, government, or your friends for that matter, tell you, but you don't really seem to know what the whole truth is either (who does?) and yet still sound a bit too sure of yourselves. As for me, having a strong biology education helped separate the truth from the lies/exaggerations, but I think I'm fortunate that way. Public health threats are real, pandemics are real, doing whatever you can, whenever you can/if you can, to keep from catching a bad virus that could kill you is just common sense (also, climate change is real and it's bad, but I won't go there...). I agree though that the "powers that be" aren't doing their jobs, are f-ing with people's minds at times, and for probably nefarious reasons, and the public are generally uniformed, not to mention, sadly, often pretty stupid and gullible. Education about anything and everything that matters, that's often the best defense in life (imo). On the other hand, I'm well aware of all the people who never had a good education, because they can't even get a good education -- children who are too poor, become illiterate, live with domestic abuse, and so on. Nevertheless, I celebrate free speech here and elsewhere, even when I don't agree with some of your views. Sorry for this rambling rant, and best of luck to both of you!
Thanks for tuning in :) Curious to know which part of the Covid commentary you disagreed with?
No problem. I'll listen again for more specifics, then get back to you, I promise. And am honored that you're asking (I mean it!) 😊 Just off the bat though, I realize that there is/was no consensus on covid policies and precautions, so I don't think you and Mary Lou were at all way out there with your take on things, nor not likely fully in agreement with each other either. Total agreement on anything is rare, as it probably should be. I also think that some people went way overboard believing all the covid hype. Also, in case it matters, I had the US experience of the pandemic, and that may color my views. So, toodeloo for now.
Hi Meghan, Just to say I'm not sure it would matter at this point if I tried to respond more on how I disagree with some of what was said on the podcast. It's kind of a challenge anyway unless I were to have a transcript and could copy and paste and comment like that to certain points. What's more important (imo) is that you and ML are taking stand and speaking out for women, the part of the conversation about prostituted women was inspiring! So, suffice it to say, I hope, I support you, have for some time, think you're intelligent and brave, and this may sound strange, but as I'm old enough to be your mother (of course no offense to your real mother!), I'd have been proud to call you my daughter (I never had children, on purpose, and I'm okay with that). Wishing you the best!
That's an insane story right out of a horror movie that Mary Lou told! That, and Meghan talking about camping alone and being afraid of both men and bears, got me to thinking about how I'll bet a lot of American women doing something like that would have a gun with them. I know that's not an option for most Canadians and for good reason but there it is...sometimes you *do* need one for protection, and there's *no way* I would camp alone in the woods without a firearm. But, since I don't know how to shoot and have never owned a gun, I would never camp alone in the woods. Not judging y'all, but that's what I was thinking... a gun beats a knife duct-taped to a stick, and in Canada, he's less likely to be packing his *own* piece. Esp if he needs to strap a knife to a stuck.
Sorry, ex-pat American here...and I do support the 2A...but with more restrictions than are currently in place (I'm against f'n idiots with guns!)
Re prostitution: Here's something to think about. What would prostitution look like if *women* ran the *entire* industry rather than men? When I was in my twenties I read Sydney Biddle Barrow's Book Mayflower Madam (remember her?) She was an upper-class woman who ran a high-class brothel with 'nice' girls and a lot of rules for men. It was quite exclusive and, according to Barrows, the girls were well-treated and carefully protected by her. Now, I haven't found so far any testimonies or memoirs of women who worked for Barrows so the narrative may be heavily skewed. But what she did was to apply regular marketing and branding ideas to prostitution which brought a different mindset to it. *IF* she watched out for the girls and made sure they were well-treated by the clients--who allegedly could be banned for bad behaviour--then, what would the industry look like if women ran it? Discuss. Debate. Explain. :)
There have been female brothel owners and I've spoken to and interviewed women who've worked for some of these women. Prostitution is traumatic either way, though... it's the nature of the game...
You may well be right. But these female brothel owners operate in a patriarchal world with whom they must compete. I would love to know (and I've looked) if Barrows's business model was as positive and pleasant as suggested (and granted, the girls weren't going with any lowlifes) or whether it's all a load of shit. I don't know that prostitution will ever go away. Men and women are just wired too differently, and sex doesn't require emotions and commitment for men as it does for many women (and I know there are exceptions to everything!)
Women who become escort agency owners or brothel owners or whatever tend to be women who've aged out of prostituting themselves, so likely have their own industry-related trauma, but this is what they know how to do, so continue to operate within the industry as it were. In order to switch from exploited to exploiter, though, I think you'd have to really check out and force yourself into a rather sociopathic mindset... I'm just not sure how this could be framed as a good thing either way...
Again keep in mind Biddle Barrows ran a mostly "outcall" service whereas what is frequently discussed here and in other places are "incalls" or mega-brothels. Biddle Barrows type operations do exist in Europe but don't get a lot of attention except for example in this video below.
https://www.rts.ch/play/tv/-/video/-?urn=urn:rts:video:11939115&startTime=555
I don't doubt there abusive female brothel owners and agency managers but I do think you are on to something about being a female run field vs a male run field. Another thought of mine is the inegalitarian nature of Biddle Barrows type operations don't really fit in the preferred narrative of the pro prostitution crowd either which is centered a much more left wing anti capitalist orientation. Biddle Barrows and that Leyla featured in the video above really are not catering to the poor and downtrodden classes as there customer base.
Another comment I will make is I happen to know anecdotally that a lot of the girls that work for present day Biddle Barrows type or work "independently" for the same type of clientele are actually kind of politically conservative and unwoke i.e. they would prefer less taxes and lower crime and are more likely to take Israel's side than Hamas. The only really left wing position they have is that prostitution should be legal.
Arrgghh, tragically my French isn’t good enough to understand it…wish there were subtitles!
Well, there isn't a lot of data on this but anecdotally in countries like Germany and Belgium most so-called "outcall" escort agencies are owned/run by women and modelled similarly to Sydney Biddle Barrow's operation. It is the "brothel" side of the business which is more likely to be owned/run by men.
Interesting factoid. In the UK escort agencies akin to Sydney Biddle Barrow's operation are legal while German style mega-brothels are not. Some defenders of the UK model argue it is akin to alcohol licensing policies that allow alcohol to be served in restaurants but discourage establishments that serve alcohol only without food and encourage heavy drinking and disorderly conduct.
government lies. far too many people will believe anything they are told by "authority" figures. so where do we go from here...