So I have not commented on this site for a long time. I am catching up here. Meghan thanks for speaking, plain and true. You say it like it is.
Two nights ago I was accused by my adult son to be a right-wing bigot, as we were discussing the very topic you speak to today. I also say, wait, watch, think, and ask, what would you do under those miserable circumstance, is it okay to break the law, is it really that people who enforce the law are nazis, etc. Turns out my adult daughers feel the same way as my son, one daughter going so far as to say the mother who raised her is dead.
Needless to see I reeled for a few hours. Mothers are not supposed to express strong opinions. Mothers, even the old ones like me, are supposed to be in histrionics because a man was shot, as was a woman (all seen as brave innocents, not I must add, is it 'good' to shoot people down in the streets). My son was outraged that I was not, and was waiting instead to form a more clear opionion based on the facts as they emerged.
Then I listened to Dave Rubin, who calmly spoke to own thoughts on this matter. He said that we all appear to be watching two movies, although they are the same one, and coming away with an entirely different point of view as are those who are watching with different eyes. I concur. My family is a perfect example, a Canadian family, same movie, different understanding, as are my coworkers. One said this morning "we can no longer go to the states as we will die there." All hearing her agreed. I wanted to reply, 'only if you go armed, are violent yourself and would like to incite more violence, and have every intention of disobying the law to protect the criminal illegals.'
The divide that formed in Canada and also around the world over the 'c' shots and dogma, apply also to the ideological structures. Canada is dogma country, and if you don't comply, what out.
Also if you are an old or older woman who is supposed to be 'nice' because female, our families are or could be disusted with us, rather than proud of a grandma and mother who thinks first and talks after.
Sigh. Yes you are right on all counts. Women, especially older women, are not supposed to have the Bad and Mean opinions. We are supposed to be "compassionate," which apparently means not thinking rationally or speaking inconvenient truths. I'm sorry your family is behaving in this way towards you. The algorithms make people deranged imo. They show, as Rubin points out, "two different movies," and one of those movies paints those seeing the other one as evil monsters.
For sure, media is not objective. What Rubin suggests is that two people, for example, watch the same 'movie' and each comes away with a completely different response. and I would add, depending on the lens through which one is viewing the 'movie.'
"Maybe it was the border Biden left wide open for a number of years." This has been a problem for the past forty years in the US, through both Republican and Democratic administrations. I lived in Canada for seven years. Yes, lots of immigrants there, but next-to-no illegal immigration. At the same time, no ICE-type raids. Why? They are unnecessary. There is an off-the-books economy in the US that doesn't exist in places like Canada. In the US -- lots more cash wages/payments going on. The reason the US is a magnet for illegal immigration is that the US does not enforce laws about proper documentation for hiring. Illegal immigrants are hired by many industries, and it's all done with a wink and a smile from government officials. Trump talks a big game but he is not truly serious. Why hasn't he pushed for national E-Verify? The US is the only developed country in the world that is de facto open borders. It's because that is what business owners want. It puts a download pressure on wages. Trump is not serious about doing anything about it. He loves cheap labor as much as Wall Street does.
Whenever I see the same kind of horrible news story/narrative drilled in over and over, I think about trauma bonding and what the media download will be for folks who are then extra vulnerable to authority (media) planting a belief in the public. We need brains ON-line, as in working, not off-line and absorbing beliefs without discernment.
Oof... Sounds like you've been dealing with some pretty rabid takes on social media. For myself I'm not sure whether Alex Pretti was interfering with ICE operations. I think it would really depend on what was going on with ICE and the lady he went to help. Unfortunately it's hard to identify trustworthy news sources these days on either side. Normally I would expect that in an officer-involved shooting there would be an investigation. I do not expect that high ranking members of the federal government will say the dead citizen is a terrorist who was looking to inflict maximum damage before any investigation has taken place and while the facts aren't all clear...although it is clear from the videos that Alex Pretti was not brandishing his weapon during his interaction with ICE so these statements by Noem and others strike me as fairly naked lies. If his intention was to shoot officers he would have fired some shots or at least been holding his gun. I'd feel the same if the administration was different.
Any time there's that many hostile interactions between officers and civilians there's going to be some shootings, of course, and I understand that officers are under immense pressure dealing with insulting and possibly dangerous lunatics all day and sometimes may shoot someone they technically didn't have to, and it's easy to judge that from the comfort of the sidelines when you weren't the one in the stressful and potentially dangerous situation. So that doesn't really strike me as unusual or troubling. But the instant responses from admin characterizing any resultant foolish dead Americans as terrorists with no investigation is unusual, and is troubling.
Citizens have a right to observe and record police activity from a distance that doesn't interfere with the activity. That is not what's happening at all in Minnesota, and several other "sanctuary" states.
Declarations of terrorism are stupid, but that's a direct result of characterization by Biden's administration of J6 protestors/rioters as terrorists even though they were overall less destructive than BLM on any single day. BLM protestors/rioters who didn't spend time in jail for actual years over it unlike the J6 crowd. J6 also had a death on the citizen side but over which no one on the conservative side has been even remotely as violent in return. It's no longer unusual at all and hasn't been since at least 2020. You saying it is unusual kind of shows how good the pr has been one side convincing that actions are only extreme in the context of the administration rather than the actions themselves being extreme inherently. It's been really really common from the Democrats towards anyone who is not a Democrat doing anything the Democrats don't approve of.
"If his intention was to shoot officers he would have fired some shots or at least been holding his gun." - watch bodycam videos. This is often not the case. Violence against the police is very clearly impulsive a lot of the time. I watched one yesterday where a crazy man decided he was in a battle with the cop that pulled him over and pulled out an actual chainsaw. The taser failed to deploy and then that dude cut up the tires on the patrol vehicle, drove off into the desert and was pursued. Municipal police training is different but if you're face to face with a federal agent or an armed services member you have a single warning and if you miss or ignore that they are trained to shoot center mass, kill you, and figure out details later. They are also trained for higher accuracy than municipal police. ID badges for the military used to have Geneva Convention rules for engagement attached to them which said as much, shoot to kill, not a bunch of warning.
I've watched videos of the Pretti incident and it looks like the gun discharged and there was confusion and tragically he was shot. The federal officers in question would be under less pressure if Walz and Frey would have not told the regular cops to stand down, would keep criminals with ICE detainers in custody for pick up like red states are doing, would not constantly announce/criticize/demonize ICE activity, and would punish citizens for doing anything beyond their legal right of observing and record. Walz and Frey putting people in harm's way on purpose for politics and those people are too stupid or unused to dealing with violence to have even a whiff of self preservation.
There was no criminal involved other than the murderer who is a customs & immigration officer with a gun and a mask, hardly an outfit of a law enforcement officer. His action was denounced by the local chief of police & rightly so. Non-violent protestors break the law by blocking vehicles, interfering with police work or refusing to obey orders, annoying authority anyway they can without responding to violence with violence.
That's an insane thing to say considering what I've just explain about what constitutes a felony. The local police have been directed by the shady-ass politicians running the city and state NOT to help ICE or intervene, putting the officers in further danger AS WELL AS THE PROTESTORS, as they are now dealing with an incredibly stressed force, untrained to deal with terrorists and riots. Stop pretending these people aren't violent! A good an example of non-violent protest was the Convoy. Unless you have your head in the sand, you can see these officers are being physically attacked on the daily, their lives in danger.
You think the people protesting racial segregation were seeking a veto ? They were combating injutice, trying to raise awareness, and eventually enough people recognized that bigotry was incompatible with the American bill of rights that the laws were changed though it took years before the new laws were enforced.
Duncan. I went to jail 30 times in the 1980s protesting nukes and US intervention in Central America. We committed nonviolent civil disobedience in the style of Gandhi and MLK. We sat in front of gates, linked arms, sang songs. There were strict rules about no weapons, no drugs, no yelling. Eventually the cops would come and arrest us. One by one we’d be escorted to the police van. If we wanted to be really badass, we’d go limp and they’d need two officers to carry us away. It was about optics and the need to occupy the moral high ground. We wanted America to see that we were the good guys. We rarely got hurt.
That’s not what we see in MPLS. Blocking traffic, blowing whistles, and packing guns was not how we conducted ourselves at Seabrook, Diablo Canyon or Vandenberg AFB. And guess what? NOBODY GOT SHOT. Have the rioters in Minnesota gone through extensive nonviolence training? Clearly not. Stop calling what they do “nonviolent.” Suddenly liberals are second amendment advocates — “he had a license to conceal carry, and bring extra ammo !”
Your anger is no virtue. Your outrage is not a political strategy. Cursing persuades no one. Martyrdom accomplishes nothing. Suicide by cop does not win the hearts and minds of Americans watching this on TV. What they see are lemmings willing to lose everything for a lost cause. Do better, sir.
They could do better; non-violent training is a great idea. Back in the day the Federal government supported the protesters. Today they send in masked marauders who are implementing a white supremacy strategy with a caveat: white Christian. The population have been taken by surprise they are unprepared for street arrests, intimidation, confused instructions to provoke all done by masked thugs. At least the Alabama police wore uniforms and of course the protestors initiated action. Now it is the masked murderers on the unprovoked, unprecedented, unpredictable attack with eight dead this year, 30 shot, 32 dead while in “custody”. If you are black in America you are a target of ICE. It should be defunded it’s a criminal organization run by Stephen Miller and White Christian nationalists.
"If you are black in America you are a target of ICE."
That is... not true?
Also, ICE existed during the Obama administration, and the Biden administration... It's been around since like 2003. Stephen Miller has been Homeland Security Advisor since 2025...
I don't understand where you are getting these talking points?
That take about "white Christian nationalism" is fucking crazy. Most of these people are also from Christian countries and are at least nominally Christian if not from more strict denominations than the average American because most of them are from central and south America. Do you know what a Catholic is? Lol and jfc how stupid are you to think black people are targeted by ICE. White and black people are usually considered "default" Americans because of our national history and consistent demographics. Most black Americans are Christian. Depending which part of the country you're in hispanic people are also default Americans. You can't turn your head without seeing PR pride in NYC. You can’t even figure out what type of racist to be. FYI, black communities want MORE police generally, not less, because of the type of crime a lot of the illegal immigrants have been arrested for, that is drug crimes, drug related violence, and human trafficking.
You know who else wants illegal immigrants out? Legal immigrants. Why? Because ICE/INS resources tied up in dealing with this shit slows the legal application process down by almost a decade for some people. You know why the Somalian scam thing is such a problem? Because actual poor Americans didn't get aid and the fraud level is to such a degree that the state might lose all federal funding for those poor Americans. You know who the number one victims of illegal immigrant crime is? Mostly other illegal immigrant women and children.
Please tell us all more about how you have never dealt with poverty and violence in person but once heard a tale a long time ago in a galaxy far far away told by Don Lemon.
These people aren't being denied a constitutional right based on an immutable characteristic like sex or the color of their skin. You don't have a right to cross a border and just live anywhere you want. Borders aren't injustice. The people interfering with cops aren't raising awareness, they're interfering with cops.
They're not freedom riders. They're aren't fighting the good fight. You're on the side of people protecting actual criminals beyond just the basic border crossing. You're defending people protecting pedophiles, human traffickers, drug traffickers, drug dealers, wife beaters. This isn't bigotry. None of us can just hop over to another country and stay without a visa or citizenship.
Obama deported more people than ICE has rounded up behind masks and threats to shoot & shooting. If you think masked marauders are good for your country I can’t help you.
People like you are why ICE officers are wearing masks. This isn't Washington Square Park where cops taped their info and unlawfully beat the shit out of people. The protesters aren't asking for a name and badge number, they're publishing home addresses of officers just doing their jobs which is a CRIME. Like for real I don't think you understand that and since the Minnesota pedo protection squad is doxxing for harassment purposes, the officers in question get to wear masks now instead of just showing up at the police station and picking up an already detained person like they do in, say, Texas or Florida.
The general public has no right to any further personal information about any level of police officer unless they're bringing a complaint against that specific officer or, more usually, being arrested. Even then they still have no right to the officer's protected information like where they live, what their wife's and kids' names are, where their church is, where their kids go to school, what their personal vehicle information is, etc. Police paperwork has the names of involved officers unless it's an undercover cop where there is an additional layer of identity protection. If you're interviewed for witnessing a violent crime you get names of interviewing officers and department contact info. Ask me how I know! If you are the victim you get names and department contact info. If you are arrested you get names and department contact info. If you are the lawyer you get names and department contact info. If you're some rando holding a cardboard sign screaming Orange Man Bad you get nothing. You do not have a right to any information about the officers in question at all, let alone their home address.
Obama had cooperation from people on the left over this, from citizens and Democrat government officials. There were no organized far left psychos going around in blue states doxxing, stalking, assaulting, and harassing officers and suspected officers (read: regular people) at their homes, on the street, and now I guess in churches. If you can't imagine that it makes a difference when people are threatening officers doing their job and that masks are now being used to protect the identity of people actively under threat from far left activism then I can't help you either. You fail to understand the problem with showing up at someone's home to harass them for legally fulling their job requirements. Or is doxxing ok when people you support do it?
You're also accusing ICE of threatening to shoot when a warning is standard. The cops give you a chance to stop being stupid before they try to stop you from being even stupider. Many many more chances than would occur in an actual war zone or under a real totalitarian regime. Ask Iranians about that, where the mullahs and mercenaries have been executing protesters in hospital beds. Would you prefer they give no warning before opening fire? Because that's certainly a quicker solution. Almost twice as many people died dealing with ICE under Obama. Pretti brought a gun to a protest and was previously violent with officers. He should have been arrested on the first incident for spitting (legally assault) and kicking out that tail light, but due to the leniency of officers present and criminal behavior of the mayor/governor he died repeating the same stupid behavior after what looks like a tragic mistake of an accidental discharge and resulting confusion. I'd gather the lack of understanding there means you haven't heard proximal gunshots in the wild which I assure you is actually fear inducing.
DHS and ICE are targeting people flagged by the justice system. You're defending real criminals and defending people harassing and assaulting police officers on behalf of those criminals. People who committed crimes other than just being here illegally, which is still the bare minimum it takes to get deported. Committing any offense while on any temporary visa can get you deported too. No one has a right to stay in a country they're not a citizen of, a lot of these people are getting off light being deported when the some of the crimes they commit have years to decades long sentences attached to them normally but because they were released just to spite Trump they're just out there doing the same shit that got them arrested already.
You're on the side of slave labor, sex trafficking, gang violence, murder, rapists, disappearing children, and hundreds of thousands of Americans ODing on the streets and the people who want that to continue at all costs just because they don't like the president. You're not the hero.
If Walz and Frey had NOT told police to stand down and not provide aid and not to release people on ICE detainers when they were in custody for other crimes then there would probably be no conflicts. There would be fewer if any illegal immigrants being picked up on the street. The White House has posted a near 1700 page website ,12 per, documenting the ADDITIONAL crimes those arrested have committed. It's about 20,000 people who were arrested for drugs, trafficking, murder, rape, child exploitation, assault. Like holy shit, if you're in a country illegally maybe don't even smoke a joint because your situation is not the same, let alone engage in higher order criminal activity and/or violence.
ICE incidents that include violence are almost entirely confined to states and cities that are purposely not cooperating. States that are don't have problems don't have them because when they catch an illegal immigrant on another crime they actually just hold the person until ICE picks them up which is what they're supposed to have been doing all along. It would help if Walz and Frey would cooperate as municipalities in red states are doing AND how blue states were doing with Obama. Minnesota magically cooperated back then.
You have a right to observe and record police activity as a private citizen. You have no rights to physically get in the way of a cop or even alert a suspect to run. It's not nonviolent to body block police, use your car to block police, confront random citizens and intimidating them into providing their papers, stalk and block random citizens because you think they're law enforcement. When you do that to a regular citizen that's false imprisonment and a crime. When do you do that to an on duty cop pursuing a criminal that's obstruction. If you touch someone while impeding their right to move freely in public spaces that's simple assault and falls under violence. Doing that to a cop is assaulting an officer and obstruction. "Sit ins" are trespassing. Stopping emergency vehicles and personnel can be a felony depending how dangerous what you did is. It is aiding criminals in evading the police to warn them, it is harboring to hide them.
The consequences for breaking the law "nonviolently" is still arrest. If you resist the arrest and have a weapon on you shit goes badly. The propaganda about "unarmed black men" is not true because bringing a gun to a gun fight ends bad for everyone including white people. If you want to protest nonviolently then you accept the arrest record, potential conviction, and all consequences that may entail. If you're unwilling to accept that then don't go to a protest where those are the potential consequences because the people around you are doing illegal things and you are with them. Resisting arrest IS violence, you are literally fighting the cops at that point, that is the definition. You're redefining terms to try and fit what you want to be true.
Someone is telling these idiots that cops don't have the legal right to manhandle them and that is completely false. They can hogtie and and detain you off scene to deal with later if you're that much of a problem. They can arrest and charge you with obstruction. If these people had a case they'd be collecting resources and SUING the federal government to implement the law differently or change it all together. Instead the people in charge of these groups, including local Democrats, are using average morons who have no experience with cops because they lived safe comfy lives as living shields for a political agenda to protect literal criminals.
The point about peaceful, non-violent protest is to break the law … and to suffer and accept the consequences. Segregation of the races was the law. MLK & allies protested and some were shot. They protested the inherent injustice of racial segregation. The nurse shot dead by ten bullets was protesting the injustice of ignoring constitutional rights of privacy,he was murdered protecting a woman who had been thrown to the ground. He could have been arrrested. People are mad because shooting someone who refuses to obey makes no sense.
He was interfering with federal agents trying to arrest a criminal, he assaulted an officer, he had a gun on him. I don't think he deserved to be shot, but also, these things do sometimes happen when you endanger a law enforcement officer (or when you make him believe he is in danger)... This is the reality. Also, "protesting the injustice of ignoring constitutional rights of privacy"?? What?? They were *trying* to restrain him, at which point he would have been arrested. Why on earth was he fighting back, then? What did he expect to happen there? Why didn't he just... get arrested? These 'protestors' aren't engaged in non-violent protest! They are explicitly and intentionally harassing, assaulted, interfering with, blockading with vehicles, etc etc.
The guy was in trouble the week prior for getting in a physical altercation with federal agents.
I don't know for sure if this is him or not, but I do know that there are endless videos showing these "protestors" are violent and dangerous. They have not engaged in peaceful protest, because their aim is to engage in violent protest. That's the strategy.
Then suffer and accept consequences that include death and don't whine about it.
The "nurse shot dead for peaceful protesting and helping a woman" is as much a childish excuse as the trans woman who made a big deal that he would use the women's bathroom in Florida, where it is illegal, and then cried that he was arrested for "washing his hands." It's BS that I don't accept from a child, even less an adult.
Terrorists ? Only the White House calls the citizens of Minnesota trying to protect themselves from marauding masked men arresting anybody with a black face terrorists. Since when is protecting a woman knocked down assaulting a officer ? Its a stretch calling the masked armed customs & immigration goons officer to begin with. Officers have uniforms and respect the rights of citizens or pay dearly for not doing it. These guys have now murdered eight people this year and shot at least 30. Some 32 people haved died while in ICE custody. Somalian immigrants are the main target in Maine and Minnesota. ICE is a white Christian nationalist organization which fits neatly in with the Trump insider worldview n’est-ce pas.
I think you've missed the fact that this is an organized operation... No offense, but I think you've missed a lot of facts about this story... This is not an organic uprising, it is state-sponsored, and well-organized. Many of those involved are paid activists. The intention is a violent uprising. The calculated use of violence or the threat of violence intended to coerce or intimidate governments or societies into pursuing specific political, ideological, or religious objectives is "terrorism." The trans activists use the same tactics. It may feel triggering to hear the term, but that's why it's being used...
Millions of dollars spent it seems organizing useless and dangerous protests instead of aid to immigrants truly seeking asylum, trafficked immigrants, or even addressing the arguments on what is considered due process. Literally organized to do as much as possible to not get the right thing done no matter what.
It's too bad that Minneapolis-St Paul is getting a bad reputation because of the left-wing demonstrators there. It has a lot to offer as a city, including the Twin Cities Marathon run there in October. Being the the main marathon in a border state, it attracts a lot of Canadian runners. My cousin Bruce, who lived in Regina then, ran it one year and hit a deer with his car on the drive back to Saskatchewan. His car was covered with blood and looked like the Manson Family getaway car. When he stopped at the nearest police station they were completely unfazed and sent him on his way. It seemed it was a common occurrence around there. He forgot to get a statement from the police, so faced Canadian customs with trepidation when he hit the Saskatchewan border. Luckily, the customs officer was also a marathoner. He didn't grill him about his bloodied car, but wanted to get all the details on the Twin Cities Marathon.
So I have not commented on this site for a long time. I am catching up here. Meghan thanks for speaking, plain and true. You say it like it is.
Two nights ago I was accused by my adult son to be a right-wing bigot, as we were discussing the very topic you speak to today. I also say, wait, watch, think, and ask, what would you do under those miserable circumstance, is it okay to break the law, is it really that people who enforce the law are nazis, etc. Turns out my adult daughers feel the same way as my son, one daughter going so far as to say the mother who raised her is dead.
Needless to see I reeled for a few hours. Mothers are not supposed to express strong opinions. Mothers, even the old ones like me, are supposed to be in histrionics because a man was shot, as was a woman (all seen as brave innocents, not I must add, is it 'good' to shoot people down in the streets). My son was outraged that I was not, and was waiting instead to form a more clear opionion based on the facts as they emerged.
Then I listened to Dave Rubin, who calmly spoke to own thoughts on this matter. He said that we all appear to be watching two movies, although they are the same one, and coming away with an entirely different point of view as are those who are watching with different eyes. I concur. My family is a perfect example, a Canadian family, same movie, different understanding, as are my coworkers. One said this morning "we can no longer go to the states as we will die there." All hearing her agreed. I wanted to reply, 'only if you go armed, are violent yourself and would like to incite more violence, and have every intention of disobying the law to protect the criminal illegals.'
The divide that formed in Canada and also around the world over the 'c' shots and dogma, apply also to the ideological structures. Canada is dogma country, and if you don't comply, what out.
Also if you are an old or older woman who is supposed to be 'nice' because female, our families are or could be disusted with us, rather than proud of a grandma and mother who thinks first and talks after.
Sigh. Yes you are right on all counts. Women, especially older women, are not supposed to have the Bad and Mean opinions. We are supposed to be "compassionate," which apparently means not thinking rationally or speaking inconvenient truths. I'm sorry your family is behaving in this way towards you. The algorithms make people deranged imo. They show, as Rubin points out, "two different movies," and one of those movies paints those seeing the other one as evil monsters.
Thanks for your comment. I imagine many more women are experiencing a similiar reaction in their families.
Yes, indeed. From the mister.
I’d also point out that the left is in a media bubble that does not consider both sides. I’m not sure if it’s just the one screen.
For sure, media is not objective. What Rubin suggests is that two people, for example, watch the same 'movie' and each comes away with a completely different response. and I would add, depending on the lens through which one is viewing the 'movie.'
I totally got that. I was just adding some observation.
You could be my grandma.
Thank you. I'm honored.
"Maybe it was the border Biden left wide open for a number of years." This has been a problem for the past forty years in the US, through both Republican and Democratic administrations. I lived in Canada for seven years. Yes, lots of immigrants there, but next-to-no illegal immigration. At the same time, no ICE-type raids. Why? They are unnecessary. There is an off-the-books economy in the US that doesn't exist in places like Canada. In the US -- lots more cash wages/payments going on. The reason the US is a magnet for illegal immigration is that the US does not enforce laws about proper documentation for hiring. Illegal immigrants are hired by many industries, and it's all done with a wink and a smile from government officials. Trump talks a big game but he is not truly serious. Why hasn't he pushed for national E-Verify? The US is the only developed country in the world that is de facto open borders. It's because that is what business owners want. It puts a download pressure on wages. Trump is not serious about doing anything about it. He loves cheap labor as much as Wall Street does.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/trump-e-verify-fox-news-makes-it-too-hard-to-hire-the-undocumented.html
Yes YES!
Exactly, and thank you.
Whenever I see the same kind of horrible news story/narrative drilled in over and over, I think about trauma bonding and what the media download will be for folks who are then extra vulnerable to authority (media) planting a belief in the public. We need brains ON-line, as in working, not off-line and absorbing beliefs without discernment.
Oof... Sounds like you've been dealing with some pretty rabid takes on social media. For myself I'm not sure whether Alex Pretti was interfering with ICE operations. I think it would really depend on what was going on with ICE and the lady he went to help. Unfortunately it's hard to identify trustworthy news sources these days on either side. Normally I would expect that in an officer-involved shooting there would be an investigation. I do not expect that high ranking members of the federal government will say the dead citizen is a terrorist who was looking to inflict maximum damage before any investigation has taken place and while the facts aren't all clear...although it is clear from the videos that Alex Pretti was not brandishing his weapon during his interaction with ICE so these statements by Noem and others strike me as fairly naked lies. If his intention was to shoot officers he would have fired some shots or at least been holding his gun. I'd feel the same if the administration was different.
Any time there's that many hostile interactions between officers and civilians there's going to be some shootings, of course, and I understand that officers are under immense pressure dealing with insulting and possibly dangerous lunatics all day and sometimes may shoot someone they technically didn't have to, and it's easy to judge that from the comfort of the sidelines when you weren't the one in the stressful and potentially dangerous situation. So that doesn't really strike me as unusual or troubling. But the instant responses from admin characterizing any resultant foolish dead Americans as terrorists with no investigation is unusual, and is troubling.
Citizens have a right to observe and record police activity from a distance that doesn't interfere with the activity. That is not what's happening at all in Minnesota, and several other "sanctuary" states.
Declarations of terrorism are stupid, but that's a direct result of characterization by Biden's administration of J6 protestors/rioters as terrorists even though they were overall less destructive than BLM on any single day. BLM protestors/rioters who didn't spend time in jail for actual years over it unlike the J6 crowd. J6 also had a death on the citizen side but over which no one on the conservative side has been even remotely as violent in return. It's no longer unusual at all and hasn't been since at least 2020. You saying it is unusual kind of shows how good the pr has been one side convincing that actions are only extreme in the context of the administration rather than the actions themselves being extreme inherently. It's been really really common from the Democrats towards anyone who is not a Democrat doing anything the Democrats don't approve of.
"If his intention was to shoot officers he would have fired some shots or at least been holding his gun." - watch bodycam videos. This is often not the case. Violence against the police is very clearly impulsive a lot of the time. I watched one yesterday where a crazy man decided he was in a battle with the cop that pulled him over and pulled out an actual chainsaw. The taser failed to deploy and then that dude cut up the tires on the patrol vehicle, drove off into the desert and was pursued. Municipal police training is different but if you're face to face with a federal agent or an armed services member you have a single warning and if you miss or ignore that they are trained to shoot center mass, kill you, and figure out details later. They are also trained for higher accuracy than municipal police. ID badges for the military used to have Geneva Convention rules for engagement attached to them which said as much, shoot to kill, not a bunch of warning.
I've watched videos of the Pretti incident and it looks like the gun discharged and there was confusion and tragically he was shot. The federal officers in question would be under less pressure if Walz and Frey would have not told the regular cops to stand down, would keep criminals with ICE detainers in custody for pick up like red states are doing, would not constantly announce/criticize/demonize ICE activity, and would punish citizens for doing anything beyond their legal right of observing and record. Walz and Frey putting people in harm's way on purpose for politics and those people are too stupid or unused to dealing with violence to have even a whiff of self preservation.
There was no criminal involved other than the murderer who is a customs & immigration officer with a gun and a mask, hardly an outfit of a law enforcement officer. His action was denounced by the local chief of police & rightly so. Non-violent protestors break the law by blocking vehicles, interfering with police work or refusing to obey orders, annoying authority anyway they can without responding to violence with violence.
That's an insane thing to say considering what I've just explain about what constitutes a felony. The local police have been directed by the shady-ass politicians running the city and state NOT to help ICE or intervene, putting the officers in further danger AS WELL AS THE PROTESTORS, as they are now dealing with an incredibly stressed force, untrained to deal with terrorists and riots. Stop pretending these people aren't violent! A good an example of non-violent protest was the Convoy. Unless you have your head in the sand, you can see these officers are being physically attacked on the daily, their lives in danger.
Protesters do not get veto power in whether a law is allowed to be enforced or not
You think the people protesting racial segregation were seeking a veto ? They were combating injutice, trying to raise awareness, and eventually enough people recognized that bigotry was incompatible with the American bill of rights that the laws were changed though it took years before the new laws were enforced.
What is the "injustice" in this case? Federal officers attempting to enforce the law? What is the "bigotry" being fought?
Duncan. I went to jail 30 times in the 1980s protesting nukes and US intervention in Central America. We committed nonviolent civil disobedience in the style of Gandhi and MLK. We sat in front of gates, linked arms, sang songs. There were strict rules about no weapons, no drugs, no yelling. Eventually the cops would come and arrest us. One by one we’d be escorted to the police van. If we wanted to be really badass, we’d go limp and they’d need two officers to carry us away. It was about optics and the need to occupy the moral high ground. We wanted America to see that we were the good guys. We rarely got hurt.
That’s not what we see in MPLS. Blocking traffic, blowing whistles, and packing guns was not how we conducted ourselves at Seabrook, Diablo Canyon or Vandenberg AFB. And guess what? NOBODY GOT SHOT. Have the rioters in Minnesota gone through extensive nonviolence training? Clearly not. Stop calling what they do “nonviolent.” Suddenly liberals are second amendment advocates — “he had a license to conceal carry, and bring extra ammo !”
Your anger is no virtue. Your outrage is not a political strategy. Cursing persuades no one. Martyrdom accomplishes nothing. Suicide by cop does not win the hearts and minds of Americans watching this on TV. What they see are lemmings willing to lose everything for a lost cause. Do better, sir.
They could do better; non-violent training is a great idea. Back in the day the Federal government supported the protesters. Today they send in masked marauders who are implementing a white supremacy strategy with a caveat: white Christian. The population have been taken by surprise they are unprepared for street arrests, intimidation, confused instructions to provoke all done by masked thugs. At least the Alabama police wore uniforms and of course the protestors initiated action. Now it is the masked murderers on the unprovoked, unprecedented, unpredictable attack with eight dead this year, 30 shot, 32 dead while in “custody”. If you are black in America you are a target of ICE. It should be defunded it’s a criminal organization run by Stephen Miller and White Christian nationalists.
"If you are black in America you are a target of ICE."
That is... not true?
Also, ICE existed during the Obama administration, and the Biden administration... It's been around since like 2003. Stephen Miller has been Homeland Security Advisor since 2025...
I don't understand where you are getting these talking points?
That take about "white Christian nationalism" is fucking crazy. Most of these people are also from Christian countries and are at least nominally Christian if not from more strict denominations than the average American because most of them are from central and south America. Do you know what a Catholic is? Lol and jfc how stupid are you to think black people are targeted by ICE. White and black people are usually considered "default" Americans because of our national history and consistent demographics. Most black Americans are Christian. Depending which part of the country you're in hispanic people are also default Americans. You can't turn your head without seeing PR pride in NYC. You can’t even figure out what type of racist to be. FYI, black communities want MORE police generally, not less, because of the type of crime a lot of the illegal immigrants have been arrested for, that is drug crimes, drug related violence, and human trafficking.
You know who else wants illegal immigrants out? Legal immigrants. Why? Because ICE/INS resources tied up in dealing with this shit slows the legal application process down by almost a decade for some people. You know why the Somalian scam thing is such a problem? Because actual poor Americans didn't get aid and the fraud level is to such a degree that the state might lose all federal funding for those poor Americans. You know who the number one victims of illegal immigrant crime is? Mostly other illegal immigrant women and children.
Please tell us all more about how you have never dealt with poverty and violence in person but once heard a tale a long time ago in a galaxy far far away told by Don Lemon.
"You know who else wants illegal immigrants out? Legal immigrants."
It's true. Latinos won Trump the vote for just that reason.
These people aren't being denied a constitutional right based on an immutable characteristic like sex or the color of their skin. You don't have a right to cross a border and just live anywhere you want. Borders aren't injustice. The people interfering with cops aren't raising awareness, they're interfering with cops.
They're not freedom riders. They're aren't fighting the good fight. You're on the side of people protecting actual criminals beyond just the basic border crossing. You're defending people protecting pedophiles, human traffickers, drug traffickers, drug dealers, wife beaters. This isn't bigotry. None of us can just hop over to another country and stay without a visa or citizenship.
Obama deported more people than ICE has rounded up behind masks and threats to shoot & shooting. If you think masked marauders are good for your country I can’t help you.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1bjzk9XVek/?mibextid=wwXIfr
People like you are why ICE officers are wearing masks. This isn't Washington Square Park where cops taped their info and unlawfully beat the shit out of people. The protesters aren't asking for a name and badge number, they're publishing home addresses of officers just doing their jobs which is a CRIME. Like for real I don't think you understand that and since the Minnesota pedo protection squad is doxxing for harassment purposes, the officers in question get to wear masks now instead of just showing up at the police station and picking up an already detained person like they do in, say, Texas or Florida.
The general public has no right to any further personal information about any level of police officer unless they're bringing a complaint against that specific officer or, more usually, being arrested. Even then they still have no right to the officer's protected information like where they live, what their wife's and kids' names are, where their church is, where their kids go to school, what their personal vehicle information is, etc. Police paperwork has the names of involved officers unless it's an undercover cop where there is an additional layer of identity protection. If you're interviewed for witnessing a violent crime you get names of interviewing officers and department contact info. Ask me how I know! If you are the victim you get names and department contact info. If you are arrested you get names and department contact info. If you are the lawyer you get names and department contact info. If you're some rando holding a cardboard sign screaming Orange Man Bad you get nothing. You do not have a right to any information about the officers in question at all, let alone their home address.
Obama had cooperation from people on the left over this, from citizens and Democrat government officials. There were no organized far left psychos going around in blue states doxxing, stalking, assaulting, and harassing officers and suspected officers (read: regular people) at their homes, on the street, and now I guess in churches. If you can't imagine that it makes a difference when people are threatening officers doing their job and that masks are now being used to protect the identity of people actively under threat from far left activism then I can't help you either. You fail to understand the problem with showing up at someone's home to harass them for legally fulling their job requirements. Or is doxxing ok when people you support do it?
You're also accusing ICE of threatening to shoot when a warning is standard. The cops give you a chance to stop being stupid before they try to stop you from being even stupider. Many many more chances than would occur in an actual war zone or under a real totalitarian regime. Ask Iranians about that, where the mullahs and mercenaries have been executing protesters in hospital beds. Would you prefer they give no warning before opening fire? Because that's certainly a quicker solution. Almost twice as many people died dealing with ICE under Obama. Pretti brought a gun to a protest and was previously violent with officers. He should have been arrested on the first incident for spitting (legally assault) and kicking out that tail light, but due to the leniency of officers present and criminal behavior of the mayor/governor he died repeating the same stupid behavior after what looks like a tragic mistake of an accidental discharge and resulting confusion. I'd gather the lack of understanding there means you haven't heard proximal gunshots in the wild which I assure you is actually fear inducing.
DHS and ICE are targeting people flagged by the justice system. You're defending real criminals and defending people harassing and assaulting police officers on behalf of those criminals. People who committed crimes other than just being here illegally, which is still the bare minimum it takes to get deported. Committing any offense while on any temporary visa can get you deported too. No one has a right to stay in a country they're not a citizen of, a lot of these people are getting off light being deported when the some of the crimes they commit have years to decades long sentences attached to them normally but because they were released just to spite Trump they're just out there doing the same shit that got them arrested already.
https://www.dhs.gov/wow
You're on the side of slave labor, sex trafficking, gang violence, murder, rapists, disappearing children, and hundreds of thousands of Americans ODing on the streets and the people who want that to continue at all costs just because they don't like the president. You're not the hero.
It’s because of people like you that songs get written.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CMm78fQYF/?mibextid=wwXIfr
Minneapolis insurgents have far more in common with the Southerners who #resisted the federal government in the 19th century.
lol... also Democrats. It's just all one giant meme at this point.
If Walz and Frey had NOT told police to stand down and not provide aid and not to release people on ICE detainers when they were in custody for other crimes then there would probably be no conflicts. There would be fewer if any illegal immigrants being picked up on the street. The White House has posted a near 1700 page website ,12 per, documenting the ADDITIONAL crimes those arrested have committed. It's about 20,000 people who were arrested for drugs, trafficking, murder, rape, child exploitation, assault. Like holy shit, if you're in a country illegally maybe don't even smoke a joint because your situation is not the same, let alone engage in higher order criminal activity and/or violence.
ICE incidents that include violence are almost entirely confined to states and cities that are purposely not cooperating. States that are don't have problems don't have them because when they catch an illegal immigrant on another crime they actually just hold the person until ICE picks them up which is what they're supposed to have been doing all along. It would help if Walz and Frey would cooperate as municipalities in red states are doing AND how blue states were doing with Obama. Minnesota magically cooperated back then.
You have a right to observe and record police activity as a private citizen. You have no rights to physically get in the way of a cop or even alert a suspect to run. It's not nonviolent to body block police, use your car to block police, confront random citizens and intimidating them into providing their papers, stalk and block random citizens because you think they're law enforcement. When you do that to a regular citizen that's false imprisonment and a crime. When do you do that to an on duty cop pursuing a criminal that's obstruction. If you touch someone while impeding their right to move freely in public spaces that's simple assault and falls under violence. Doing that to a cop is assaulting an officer and obstruction. "Sit ins" are trespassing. Stopping emergency vehicles and personnel can be a felony depending how dangerous what you did is. It is aiding criminals in evading the police to warn them, it is harboring to hide them.
The consequences for breaking the law "nonviolently" is still arrest. If you resist the arrest and have a weapon on you shit goes badly. The propaganda about "unarmed black men" is not true because bringing a gun to a gun fight ends bad for everyone including white people. If you want to protest nonviolently then you accept the arrest record, potential conviction, and all consequences that may entail. If you're unwilling to accept that then don't go to a protest where those are the potential consequences because the people around you are doing illegal things and you are with them. Resisting arrest IS violence, you are literally fighting the cops at that point, that is the definition. You're redefining terms to try and fit what you want to be true.
Someone is telling these idiots that cops don't have the legal right to manhandle them and that is completely false. They can hogtie and and detain you off scene to deal with later if you're that much of a problem. They can arrest and charge you with obstruction. If these people had a case they'd be collecting resources and SUING the federal government to implement the law differently or change it all together. Instead the people in charge of these groups, including local Democrats, are using average morons who have no experience with cops because they lived safe comfy lives as living shields for a political agenda to protect literal criminals.
They are not cops. Cops wear uniforms not masks. Cops don’t surround people & throw them in a van because they look foreign.
The point about peaceful, non-violent protest is to break the law … and to suffer and accept the consequences. Segregation of the races was the law. MLK & allies protested and some were shot. They protested the inherent injustice of racial segregation. The nurse shot dead by ten bullets was protesting the injustice of ignoring constitutional rights of privacy,he was murdered protecting a woman who had been thrown to the ground. He could have been arrrested. People are mad because shooting someone who refuses to obey makes no sense.
He was interfering with federal agents trying to arrest a criminal, he assaulted an officer, he had a gun on him. I don't think he deserved to be shot, but also, these things do sometimes happen when you endanger a law enforcement officer (or when you make him believe he is in danger)... This is the reality. Also, "protesting the injustice of ignoring constitutional rights of privacy"?? What?? They were *trying* to restrain him, at which point he would have been arrested. Why on earth was he fighting back, then? What did he expect to happen there? Why didn't he just... get arrested? These 'protestors' aren't engaged in non-violent protest! They are explicitly and intentionally harassing, assaulted, interfering with, blockading with vehicles, etc etc.
The guy was in trouble the week prior for getting in a physical altercation with federal agents.
I don't know for sure if this is him or not, but I do know that there are endless videos showing these "protestors" are violent and dangerous. They have not engaged in peaceful protest, because their aim is to engage in violent protest. That's the strategy.
https://x.com/_johnnymaga/status/2016616618189598969?s=46
*Update, it is him. And Jesus Christ. https://x.com/shellenberger/status/2016675374340440206
https://x.com/Breaking911/status/2016701627437121980
Then suffer and accept consequences that include death and don't whine about it.
The "nurse shot dead for peaceful protesting and helping a woman" is as much a childish excuse as the trans woman who made a big deal that he would use the women's bathroom in Florida, where it is illegal, and then cried that he was arrested for "washing his hands." It's BS that I don't accept from a child, even less an adult.
Terrorists ? Only the White House calls the citizens of Minnesota trying to protect themselves from marauding masked men arresting anybody with a black face terrorists. Since when is protecting a woman knocked down assaulting a officer ? Its a stretch calling the masked armed customs & immigration goons officer to begin with. Officers have uniforms and respect the rights of citizens or pay dearly for not doing it. These guys have now murdered eight people this year and shot at least 30. Some 32 people haved died while in ICE custody. Somalian immigrants are the main target in Maine and Minnesota. ICE is a white Christian nationalist organization which fits neatly in with the Trump insider worldview n’est-ce pas.
I think you've missed the fact that this is an organized operation... No offense, but I think you've missed a lot of facts about this story... This is not an organic uprising, it is state-sponsored, and well-organized. Many of those involved are paid activists. The intention is a violent uprising. The calculated use of violence or the threat of violence intended to coerce or intimidate governments or societies into pursuing specific political, ideological, or religious objectives is "terrorism." The trans activists use the same tactics. It may feel triggering to hear the term, but that's why it's being used...
Millions of dollars spent it seems organizing useless and dangerous protests instead of aid to immigrants truly seeking asylum, trafficked immigrants, or even addressing the arguments on what is considered due process. Literally organized to do as much as possible to not get the right thing done no matter what.
"Nonviolent protest"
https://x.com/SteveGuest/status/2016610715075809552
It's too bad that Minneapolis-St Paul is getting a bad reputation because of the left-wing demonstrators there. It has a lot to offer as a city, including the Twin Cities Marathon run there in October. Being the the main marathon in a border state, it attracts a lot of Canadian runners. My cousin Bruce, who lived in Regina then, ran it one year and hit a deer with his car on the drive back to Saskatchewan. His car was covered with blood and looked like the Manson Family getaway car. When he stopped at the nearest police station they were completely unfazed and sent him on his way. It seemed it was a common occurrence around there. He forgot to get a statement from the police, so faced Canadian customs with trepidation when he hit the Saskatchewan border. Luckily, the customs officer was also a marathoner. He didn't grill him about his bloodied car, but wanted to get all the details on the Twin Cities Marathon.
I've never been