I thought this was one post worth reading again, so I read it to my teenage son. He’s been commenting about Swiftmania for the past couple years: “I don’t get it. Everyone likes her but me. I think she sucks.”
He also made a great point: “I really wonder, if it was the 70s when you had to be really good to reach that many people, if Taylor Swift would have made it [he’s a musician and adores Karen Carpenter’s voice]. I think modern tech may have something to do with it. She’s just the meme craze of teenage girls, who think they like her ‘cause they think everyone likes her. But marketing and algorithms are the force behind that popularity, not talent.”
It's not that I'm a swift fan or think she's some kind of savant, it's that this piece just kind of comes off as petty. We get it, you don't think her music is good or she's worth all the accolades etc but you're kind of giving off an "old woman yells at cloud" vibe lol. I prefer Hole, Fiona Apple, people who don't have the musical range of a tea spoon but Swift's music appeals to a lot of people.
I mean, I think I make it clear I'm aware of what it sounds like when I say such things, and joke about that. At the same time, I mean, is it 'petty' to expect quality from someone deemed a 'brilliant' 'mastermind'?
No. It is petty to expect it from someone you don't deem a mastermind or musically talented and then point it out... repeatedly LOL. She appeals to a demographic and she is well marketed and maintained. She works her base by giving them little inside puzzles etc and they love it. Is she my go to when I want to listen? No. Is she my go to when I want an endless stream of something in the background that is just background noise? Sure. Also, she has some danceable stuff. When I want something meaty and a statement or protest type music, I look for the real stuff. When I want to immerse into music and feel the joy of beautiful music, I look for the real stuff. When I want fluff? Her and a couple of others are my go to.
Stop with the subtlety and tell us how you really feel about the Taylor Swift product and fandom! To the list of great female artists, please add Tracy Chapman.
ughhhh THANK YOU for saying what so many of us are thinking (I'm sorry it's true). there's something about the sheer spectacle of the Taylor-sphere that I guess you have to respect? (or not...) but the lack of talent is absolutely staggering. can't wait to listen to the podcast you noted. it also makes you wonder how many of those 'boyfriends' were staged as well. great post!
I've heard Taylor Swift's anodyne, inoffensive music, and have no idea why people feel so passionately about her. But somehow, a flame got lit. Seems like a contagion of some sort, related to our innate tribalism, the feeling of security we get from belonging to a large homogeneous group. Benign mass formation, as it were.
One interesting thing about Taylor is that she donates millions of dollars to a variety of causes, including massive sums to food banks and other charities, as well as giving away large sums to needy friends and random strangers. She also pays her employees (road crew, musicians, etc.), high wages and tacks on enormous bonuses. Last year she gave away over $55 million.
Maybe this is her strategy for paying less in taxes and to avoid funding our foreign wars. Maybe she feels guilty for being such a successful person although she has very little talent. I dunno, I'm just riffing here.
Don't really understand the attraction of Taylor Swift, except she exhibits all the characteristics of our superficial age. The Kim Kardashian of music? Great piece.
I stopped trying to make sense of the entertainment world a long time ago. It’s like 1% of actors and pop singers take up 95% of media attention, and a lot of them are nepo babies or nothing special. With AI and auto-tune, I don’t know who actually has a good voice anymore. Remember when Lana Del Ray bombed her live performance on SNL?
Also, a lot of famous people seem like they are either mentally deranged or morally bankrupt. At least TS projects an American wholesomeness of sorts, and writes her own songs. I like some of her songs, although her voice is not the best. I see her more as a story teller, and her songs inspired from her life make her fans feel like they know her and can relate to her. That ability to connect and create very loyal fans is quite special, even if it doesn’t quite make sense to those of us outside the Swifty bubble.
Yeah in general I am always baffled by the popularity of most pop stars. Everything people go crazy for I find boring or bad. It's all so manufactured and fake, but the music is also just so forgettable.
When I was a child in the 70’s I discovered Nina Simone on Saturday Night Live and I was hypnotized.
More than a decade later a boyfriend wooed me by taking me to the microscopic Vine Street Bar and Grill where with front table seats she sang to just us, somehow.
A decade later I listened to her sing “Wild is the Wind” on a mixtape made for me by a handsome man in London while I sat alone in a longhouse in Borneo on a fellowship around the world.
A decade later, her last producer made photographs of me in various stages of undress as I heard stories of her.
She’s a real musician. Between Deadmau5, Debussy, Dvorak, Ligeti and Black Sabbath I find music.
How did you manage to be such a grump on this? TS is a marketing phenom, not a musical one. My son, a musician, says that popular tastes are determined by 14 year old girls. The rest of us have to live with it, much to his chagrin, and yours apparently. Forget her, and get a subscription to Tidal or Qobuz and bluetooth your way to melodious joy. Now, I can't resist after listening to you and Linehan talking music on your podcast this afternoon (in my time): Abigail Lapell's album "Getaway"; she's from Toronto I think. Cuts me to the quick. Sarah Jarosz: "Build me Up Fom Bones" I played it 500 times before I even bothered with anything else. And a real special by Herby Hancock: "The Joni Letters" There is not a dud in that list. Forget TS. There is a massive musical delicatessen to be sampled. Cheers!
It would be one thing if this was just about what 14 year old girls like but instead the entire adult universe appears obsessed and defensive as well. I have legions of adult men and women calling me an ugly cunt on social media over this lol. Like, it's WEIRD. This chick is *not interesting or good* It just baffles me as to why the world is so obsessively defensive of this person and committed to pretending she is some kind of musical genius. All that said, she doesn't occupy a ton of space in my mind or life. But thank you for the suggestions!
Ok. I saw a bit of the Super Bowl yesterday and I read a lot of political stuff out of the US (I am Canadian) and I am getting really tired of TS stuff absolutely everywhere. I still wouldn’t recognize her voice if she sat beside me. WTF has become of journalism? Imagine working in an industry so stupidly focused. I don’t blame her; she chasing bucks, very successfully. But the msm folks? How embarrassing.
I wouldn't recognize it either. Because it sounds like... nothing! She is completely indecipherable from any other run of the mill, boring, pop star. I find it endlessly embarrassing that the media and adults in general are falling all over her like this.
My wife has been at me for the last two hours about how totally right you are and what a dummy I was for saying you were being grumpy. She also says that it all began back in the day when Znaimer created MTV and music moved from ears to eyes. I apologize for saying you are grumpy, since I found out yesterday that I am too and today that my wife is! Kindest regards as always.
Perhaps the deeper problem is the power of social media to foster individual and mass derangement. I can't help but wonder if at least some of the people who address you with vile language in response to what you say about Taylor Swift are just using their supposed outrage as a cover. When what they really want is just a pretext to call you bad names.
Prolly. The feminists who went after me are thrilled to go after me. They've been like this for at least a few years now. They're mad I strayed from the fold.
I was also thinking of the middle-aged men. I have difficulty imagining most middle aged men even willingly listening to Taylor Swift, except as a concession to their teenaged daughters.
Beginning in 1989 - the year Taylor Swift was born - Ani DiFranco addressed romance, relationships, sex, *and* the tensions between artists and the music industry in her songs. She proved that those themes don’t have to get boring, and they don’t have to sound bland. (Although she eventually lost her way, artistically, for a number of reasons).
I'm not opposed to writing, singing, creating art about love and relationships. I mean, it's forever central to our lives... I just feel like Taylor Swift keeps using the same formula over and over again... I mean, it works clearly lol
Exactly! Once you’ve heard it done greatly, you really notice the boring. Like if I ate the best dark chocolate in the world, then followed it up with a Snickers.
Ani DiFranco was (is?), however, a genuinely talented and hardworking musician and a brilliant songwriter. And I say that as someone who did not always agree with her politics or issue stances. But I respected her honesty and integrity. And I appreciated her willingness to push back, usually with a razor sharp wit, against those who complained when she, either in her personal life or in her music, did not conform with their ideological preconceptions of who or what they thought she ought to be. She was a genuine artist. Which is why she could address the themes you listed, along with many others, and not be boring. And she was also an entrepreneurial businesswoman. She formed her own independent record label at a time when that was still a relatively novel and risky venture.
She seems to have almost been forgotten. Which I find unfortunate for its own sake but also because it means the influence she had on other musicians and songwriters goes unrecognized.
Amen, sister. Brings Madonna to mind... the same people who will remind you that psychopaths are over represented among CEOs will then tell you Madonna is impressive (despite being a shitty singer who doesn’t write her own songs) precisely for being a good CEO. I, like you, am not impressed by people who are only good at (or only care about) corporate success. I know, I know--Madonna took huge risks, broke all kinds of barriers and was sexually empowering. That’s impressive but not because it makes her a good artist; just a shrewd CEO. I also realize that she appears to remain wildly entertaining to millions of people from across all living generations but I’ve always been out of touch with pop culture. Get off my lawn!
I grew up loving Hole, Liz Phair, Throwing Muses, Fiona Apple, Tori Amos, PJ Harvey and yet I still love Taylor Swift and love seeing my young daughter explore her music and be so inspired. What’s gotten boring is this schtick and the whole thing about women and autoimmune diseases in X and other recent rants that just rub me the wrong way. Time to move on as a subscriber. Best of luck.
Nothing I do is a shtick... I don't care if people disagree with me, but to claim anything I say is insincere is just an excuse to not hear it. Which of course is your own prerogative, but insulting my integrity seems lazy when you could just say "I disagree because ____."
Swift seems a preferred target of the right since Kanye grabbed her award away from her and later broadcast, " I'm still having sex with Taylor Swift. " to humiliate her. Unfortunately, few promoted her fighting back when a music big-wig sexually molested her and she sued. I'm no music fan, but the unfairness rankles.
I haven’t read this yet and definitely will later! I admit I enjoyed her concert with my daughter a few years ago but my concern is the weight she may be given with the endorsement of a president...
I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying Taylor Swift, it's the cultist dedication and claims she is some kind of groundbreaking feminist genius that make me feel insane. Like ok yeah pop music can be fun. Fine. I watch Vanderpump Rules. Sometimes I eat processed cheese. Whatever. But the way people talk about Taylor Swift really feels to me like they've been brainwashed. The level of vitrol hurled at me for saying she's boring was unREAL. (And yes, she should have no bearing on politics/elections. The world is such a scary place already, and the fact we lean on celebrities to determine politics is depressing.)
Finally read your piece and I have to say I love your perspective Meghan! There is definitely a machine behind Taylor and they have figured out the formula. My teenage daughter loves her and pre-ordered her 1989 cassette tape which was so disappointing when it came due to the poor quality and I think it broke after a few plays. I made sure to talk to her about marketing scams after! Last night I watch the netflix movie The Greatest Night in Pop about the making of "We Are the World". The 80's was full of so much raw talent with so many genre's. Some may have been in it for the money but it seemed most were passionate about their art. I have always made sure to play great music around my kids growing up, when I drove 17 hours to drop my son off at college this year, I loved his play list, he clearly gets it :)
I thought this was one post worth reading again, so I read it to my teenage son. He’s been commenting about Swiftmania for the past couple years: “I don’t get it. Everyone likes her but me. I think she sucks.”
He also made a great point: “I really wonder, if it was the 70s when you had to be really good to reach that many people, if Taylor Swift would have made it [he’s a musician and adores Karen Carpenter’s voice]. I think modern tech may have something to do with it. She’s just the meme craze of teenage girls, who think they like her ‘cause they think everyone likes her. But marketing and algorithms are the force behind that popularity, not talent.”
Exactly. It's like TikTok brainwashing. Her songs are *not* *good*. It's just that she's pushed in everyone's faces constantly and called a genius.
It's not that I'm a swift fan or think she's some kind of savant, it's that this piece just kind of comes off as petty. We get it, you don't think her music is good or she's worth all the accolades etc but you're kind of giving off an "old woman yells at cloud" vibe lol. I prefer Hole, Fiona Apple, people who don't have the musical range of a tea spoon but Swift's music appeals to a lot of people.
I mean, I think I make it clear I'm aware of what it sounds like when I say such things, and joke about that. At the same time, I mean, is it 'petty' to expect quality from someone deemed a 'brilliant' 'mastermind'?
No. It is petty to expect it from someone you don't deem a mastermind or musically talented and then point it out... repeatedly LOL. She appeals to a demographic and she is well marketed and maintained. She works her base by giving them little inside puzzles etc and they love it. Is she my go to when I want to listen? No. Is she my go to when I want an endless stream of something in the background that is just background noise? Sure. Also, she has some danceable stuff. When I want something meaty and a statement or protest type music, I look for the real stuff. When I want to immerse into music and feel the joy of beautiful music, I look for the real stuff. When I want fluff? Her and a couple of others are my go to.
What I was responding to was what I was being told, over and over again. Otherwise why would I even bother to write about her?
Stop with the subtlety and tell us how you really feel about the Taylor Swift product and fandom! To the list of great female artists, please add Tracy Chapman.
Ohhh there are SO many more
Please, also: Linda Ronstadt.
Ooooh yes!
At the top of that list, imo, should be Sister Rosetta Tharpe, godmother of rock and roll. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWB_1OBWskU
ughhhh THANK YOU for saying what so many of us are thinking (I'm sorry it's true). there's something about the sheer spectacle of the Taylor-sphere that I guess you have to respect? (or not...) but the lack of talent is absolutely staggering. can't wait to listen to the podcast you noted. it also makes you wonder how many of those 'boyfriends' were staged as well. great post!
Yeah I wonder about the boyfriends also
I've heard Taylor Swift's anodyne, inoffensive music, and have no idea why people feel so passionately about her. But somehow, a flame got lit. Seems like a contagion of some sort, related to our innate tribalism, the feeling of security we get from belonging to a large homogeneous group. Benign mass formation, as it were.
One interesting thing about Taylor is that she donates millions of dollars to a variety of causes, including massive sums to food banks and other charities, as well as giving away large sums to needy friends and random strangers. She also pays her employees (road crew, musicians, etc.), high wages and tacks on enormous bonuses. Last year she gave away over $55 million.
Maybe this is her strategy for paying less in taxes and to avoid funding our foreign wars. Maybe she feels guilty for being such a successful person although she has very little talent. I dunno, I'm just riffing here.
Don't really understand the attraction of Taylor Swift, except she exhibits all the characteristics of our superficial age. The Kim Kardashian of music? Great piece.
I stopped trying to make sense of the entertainment world a long time ago. It’s like 1% of actors and pop singers take up 95% of media attention, and a lot of them are nepo babies or nothing special. With AI and auto-tune, I don’t know who actually has a good voice anymore. Remember when Lana Del Ray bombed her live performance on SNL?
Also, a lot of famous people seem like they are either mentally deranged or morally bankrupt. At least TS projects an American wholesomeness of sorts, and writes her own songs. I like some of her songs, although her voice is not the best. I see her more as a story teller, and her songs inspired from her life make her fans feel like they know her and can relate to her. That ability to connect and create very loyal fans is quite special, even if it doesn’t quite make sense to those of us outside the Swifty bubble.
Yeah in general I am always baffled by the popularity of most pop stars. Everything people go crazy for I find boring or bad. It's all so manufactured and fake, but the music is also just so forgettable.
Well put Meghan. That needed to be said. She is BlandCorp's best selling product. I'm as baffled as you.
BlandCorp indeed.
So I’m not crazy. Thanks.
When I was a child in the 70’s I discovered Nina Simone on Saturday Night Live and I was hypnotized.
More than a decade later a boyfriend wooed me by taking me to the microscopic Vine Street Bar and Grill where with front table seats she sang to just us, somehow.
A decade later I listened to her sing “Wild is the Wind” on a mixtape made for me by a handsome man in London while I sat alone in a longhouse in Borneo on a fellowship around the world.
A decade later, her last producer made photographs of me in various stages of undress as I heard stories of her.
She’s a real musician. Between Deadmau5, Debussy, Dvorak, Ligeti and Black Sabbath I find music.
Oh man she is AMAZING.
How did you manage to be such a grump on this? TS is a marketing phenom, not a musical one. My son, a musician, says that popular tastes are determined by 14 year old girls. The rest of us have to live with it, much to his chagrin, and yours apparently. Forget her, and get a subscription to Tidal or Qobuz and bluetooth your way to melodious joy. Now, I can't resist after listening to you and Linehan talking music on your podcast this afternoon (in my time): Abigail Lapell's album "Getaway"; she's from Toronto I think. Cuts me to the quick. Sarah Jarosz: "Build me Up Fom Bones" I played it 500 times before I even bothered with anything else. And a real special by Herby Hancock: "The Joni Letters" There is not a dud in that list. Forget TS. There is a massive musical delicatessen to be sampled. Cheers!
It would be one thing if this was just about what 14 year old girls like but instead the entire adult universe appears obsessed and defensive as well. I have legions of adult men and women calling me an ugly cunt on social media over this lol. Like, it's WEIRD. This chick is *not interesting or good* It just baffles me as to why the world is so obsessively defensive of this person and committed to pretending she is some kind of musical genius. All that said, she doesn't occupy a ton of space in my mind or life. But thank you for the suggestions!
Ok. I saw a bit of the Super Bowl yesterday and I read a lot of political stuff out of the US (I am Canadian) and I am getting really tired of TS stuff absolutely everywhere. I still wouldn’t recognize her voice if she sat beside me. WTF has become of journalism? Imagine working in an industry so stupidly focused. I don’t blame her; she chasing bucks, very successfully. But the msm folks? How embarrassing.
I wouldn't recognize it either. Because it sounds like... nothing! She is completely indecipherable from any other run of the mill, boring, pop star. I find it endlessly embarrassing that the media and adults in general are falling all over her like this.
My wife has been at me for the last two hours about how totally right you are and what a dummy I was for saying you were being grumpy. She also says that it all began back in the day when Znaimer created MTV and music moved from ears to eyes. I apologize for saying you are grumpy, since I found out yesterday that I am too and today that my wife is! Kindest regards as always.
Perhaps the deeper problem is the power of social media to foster individual and mass derangement. I can't help but wonder if at least some of the people who address you with vile language in response to what you say about Taylor Swift are just using their supposed outrage as a cover. When what they really want is just a pretext to call you bad names.
Prolly. The feminists who went after me are thrilled to go after me. They've been like this for at least a few years now. They're mad I strayed from the fold.
I was also thinking of the middle-aged men. I have difficulty imagining most middle aged men even willingly listening to Taylor Swift, except as a concession to their teenaged daughters.
I'm sorry to hear about the legions. Their minds have been colonized by mob thought, which is inevitably stupid.
Beginning in 1989 - the year Taylor Swift was born - Ani DiFranco addressed romance, relationships, sex, *and* the tensions between artists and the music industry in her songs. She proved that those themes don’t have to get boring, and they don’t have to sound bland. (Although she eventually lost her way, artistically, for a number of reasons).
I'm not opposed to writing, singing, creating art about love and relationships. I mean, it's forever central to our lives... I just feel like Taylor Swift keeps using the same formula over and over again... I mean, it works clearly lol
Exactly! Once you’ve heard it done greatly, you really notice the boring. Like if I ate the best dark chocolate in the world, then followed it up with a Snickers.
Ani DiFranco was (is?), however, a genuinely talented and hardworking musician and a brilliant songwriter. And I say that as someone who did not always agree with her politics or issue stances. But I respected her honesty and integrity. And I appreciated her willingness to push back, usually with a razor sharp wit, against those who complained when she, either in her personal life or in her music, did not conform with their ideological preconceptions of who or what they thought she ought to be. She was a genuine artist. Which is why she could address the themes you listed, along with many others, and not be boring. And she was also an entrepreneurial businesswoman. She formed her own independent record label at a time when that was still a relatively novel and risky venture.
I totally agree. I never got into her personally but think she's extremely talented and interesting.
She seems to have almost been forgotten. Which I find unfortunate for its own sake but also because it means the influence she had on other musicians and songwriters goes unrecognized.
Amen, sister. Brings Madonna to mind... the same people who will remind you that psychopaths are over represented among CEOs will then tell you Madonna is impressive (despite being a shitty singer who doesn’t write her own songs) precisely for being a good CEO. I, like you, am not impressed by people who are only good at (or only care about) corporate success. I know, I know--Madonna took huge risks, broke all kinds of barriers and was sexually empowering. That’s impressive but not because it makes her a good artist; just a shrewd CEO. I also realize that she appears to remain wildly entertaining to millions of people from across all living generations but I’ve always been out of touch with pop culture. Get off my lawn!
I never loved Madonna either. Especially post-80s her songs were SO BAD. I did not get what other people were hearing and claiming to enjoy.
Sexually empowering? To whom? Maybe sexually explotative. https://metro.co.uk/2023/10/14/madonna-celebration-tour-audience-malfunction-19664882/
A sailor named Twift would have been a good character for the Sargent Pepper band.
I grew up loving Hole, Liz Phair, Throwing Muses, Fiona Apple, Tori Amos, PJ Harvey and yet I still love Taylor Swift and love seeing my young daughter explore her music and be so inspired. What’s gotten boring is this schtick and the whole thing about women and autoimmune diseases in X and other recent rants that just rub me the wrong way. Time to move on as a subscriber. Best of luck.
Nothing I do is a shtick... I don't care if people disagree with me, but to claim anything I say is insincere is just an excuse to not hear it. Which of course is your own prerogative, but insulting my integrity seems lazy when you could just say "I disagree because ____."
But you like Tupak, right? https://www.vibe.com/music/music-news/tupac-rape-accuser-details-1993-sexual-assault-claims-562983/
Swift seems a preferred target of the right since Kanye grabbed her award away from her and later broadcast, " I'm still having sex with Taylor Swift. " to humiliate her. Unfortunately, few promoted her fighting back when a music big-wig sexually molested her and she sued. I'm no music fan, but the unfairness rankles.
I like Tupac's *music*.
I haven’t read this yet and definitely will later! I admit I enjoyed her concert with my daughter a few years ago but my concern is the weight she may be given with the endorsement of a president...
I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying Taylor Swift, it's the cultist dedication and claims she is some kind of groundbreaking feminist genius that make me feel insane. Like ok yeah pop music can be fun. Fine. I watch Vanderpump Rules. Sometimes I eat processed cheese. Whatever. But the way people talk about Taylor Swift really feels to me like they've been brainwashed. The level of vitrol hurled at me for saying she's boring was unREAL. (And yes, she should have no bearing on politics/elections. The world is such a scary place already, and the fact we lean on celebrities to determine politics is depressing.)
Finally read your piece and I have to say I love your perspective Meghan! There is definitely a machine behind Taylor and they have figured out the formula. My teenage daughter loves her and pre-ordered her 1989 cassette tape which was so disappointing when it came due to the poor quality and I think it broke after a few plays. I made sure to talk to her about marketing scams after! Last night I watch the netflix movie The Greatest Night in Pop about the making of "We Are the World". The 80's was full of so much raw talent with so many genre's. Some may have been in it for the money but it seemed most were passionate about their art. I have always made sure to play great music around my kids growing up, when I drove 17 hours to drop my son off at college this year, I loved his play list, he clearly gets it :)
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/29/us/politics/biden-trump-election-taylor-swift.html